ZHAN ZHUANG: THE ART OF NOURISHING LIFE
INTERVIEW WITH DR. YU YONGNIAN
The following is taken from
taken from the book ‘Zhan Zhuang: The Art of Nourishing Life’ by Professor Yu
Yongnian, a student of Master Wang Xiangzhai. It discusses more on the health
cultivation and therapy aspect of Yiquan. Interview done by Karim Nimri.
[1] Interviewer: Professor Yu,
why have you started practicing martial arts? From what I read, after finishing
medical school, your physical condition deteriorated. Is that why you started
practicing?
Professor Yu: Initially I
studied Tai Chi and Xing Yi Quan. Around 1944, I had already completed my
medical studies and I was already working in the dentistry department at the
hospital. It is true that my health was not very good; during the winter, I
would catch a cold easily, and in the spring, it would not improve much. For
one reason or another, I would always catch something…
[2] Interviewer: And why choose
Tai Chi or internal martial arts?
Professor Yu: In China, in the
medical field, there is the idea that people who exercise regularly and develop
their body, muscles will inevitably cause their circulatory system to
deteriorate. The heart and blood circulation will be affected by excess,
leading to a shortening of life.
However, when one assiduously practices
gentle and slow exercises, their circulatory system strengthens and lengthens
their lives, which is why people that practice Tai Chi tend to live longer. If
we think of the animal kingdom, the lion or tiger possess spectacular strength but
their life expectancy is rather short. However, the elephant and the tortoise,
animals which move rather slowly, live over a hundred years.
And if we compare the animal
and vegetable kingdoms: How many years can a tree live? In Beijings’ parks,
there are many ancient trees, gigantic cypress that are over a thousand years
old. In Australia, there are sequoias over ten thousand years old. In Chinese,
they have a very interesting name, shi
yeye, which means “grandfather of the world”.
To return to the topic if
sports, the majority of people do not understand, they think that the more they
move, the better it is; the higher the speed, the better it is. Like running
the marathon and that sort of things. However, in China, from antiquity to the
present day, it is a question of whether the best exercise is to move or stand
still, a subject that is still being debated today, the conflict between movement
and stillness. Initially, I also understood that but later I found the answer
in the Tao De Jing, which solves the
dilemma. Do you know what I mean?
[3] Interviewer: I think so, is
it bao yi duli bu kai (embrace the
one alone and without changing)?
Professor Yu: Almost. bao yi wu li kai (or also: embrace the
one, without abandoning nor going away). Embracing the one is easy, anyone can
do it. But persevering, staying this way for forty minutes, an hour, it’s more
difficult. However, the longer one practices, the more the internal changes and
the greater the transformation. That is not to say that, peace is the only way.
Training in motion, that is to say, Tai Chi, also has many health benefits.
[4] Interviewer: Tai Chi
through movement is therefore the same as Zhan Zhuang through peace?
Professor Yu: When one
practices Gong Fu, one play Jin or Wu. All look the same. The thing we need to keep in mind is the
method that brings us closest to the objective; we must stress on that which
makes us progress the most, either through movement or stillness. From my
perspective, what will bring us the greatest experience of the Jin force lies
in the motionless practice, but as we said, it is a debate that dates back to
antiquity.
For most people, exercise
involves movement. However, training the internal by an outer immobility is a
practice that produces surprising results, although it is hard for some to
believe.
That said, it is necessary to
practice for a long time. Moreover, if nobody tells us what to look for or how
to find it, it is very difficult to persevere. One must have great confidence
in one’s teacher to overcome these barriers.
[5] Interviewer: Furthermore,
reading ancient texts of Kung Fu, information is often very vague and very
difficult to understand, especially for Westerners. Perhaps this leaves too
much room for speculation?
Professor Yu: It is very
difficult to find theoretical information that is precise, useful and explained
with veritable scientific parameters. The theory of Kung Fu, which we inherited
from our ancestors, reflects the reality of the time, the information was
codified and too abstract, so the theory was not easy to understand if you do
not have someone to explain it to you.
But today, we rediscover
ancient knowledge with the means provided by modern science. Results are in a
verifiable form. We understand better ancient concepts. We should not train on
blind faith alone, solely based on information from a remote past. For example,
we speak of “finding stillness in movement of Tai Chi and movement in stillness
with Qigong”. How do we measure movement in stillness? How is it verifiable?
[6] Interviewer: I do not know.
Is there a means to measure the movement in stillness?
Professor Yu: There is one, but
until recently, no one knew how to measure it. In fact, it is enough just to
measure one’s pulse to see that with practice of a static posture, without moving,
the pulse can rise up to 150 beats. This is an example of what we were talking
about.
[7] Interviewer: You mean, with
the pulse, it is possible to determine the degree of internal movement?
Professor Yu: Yes, of course.
It is not an external movement but an internal one. If it moves very, very
slowly, it is possible that the heart rate does not change, and yet without
moving, it can go over 150.
[8] Interviewer: With such
rapid heart rate, there would be some respiratory problems, breathing wouldn’t
be normal…
Professor Yu: You see? That’s
the advantage. In any sport, with a heart rate above 100, one begins to pant.
But with the practice of Zhan Zhuang, at a faster pace, you don’t get out of
breath. There are physical activities that cause us to lose oxygen accumulated
in the blood and others, where oxygen is not lost, but where it accumulates.
That is why, when one pratices Zhan Zhuang for over twenty minutes, even if one
begins to sweat, the mind is more clear and the breathing does not accelerate.
[9] Interviewer: Can you tell us
about your meeting with Wang Xiangzhai and give us your first impression?
Professor Yu: He was an elderly
man, neither fat nor thin, neither tall nor short, with a little belly. A
normal man for his age. He must have been about fifty or could have very well
been in his sixties. I was 23 or 24. He was very bright, healthy but did not
look like someone practicing Kung Fu. You know, people who practice Wu Shu are generally stocky, with lots
of muscles (laughs). He looked more
like an educated person. His attitude was not that of a fighter but that of a
scholar.
[10] Interviewer: Basically, if
you had bumped into him on a street, you would never have imagined him he
practiced Wu Shu…
Professor Yu: No, he didn’t
seem like that, but his physical condition was admirable, and his gait was very
sharp and swift. We, at twenty, were unable to follow. I admit that at first, I
could not believe it…
I thought: “By practicing only
Zhan Zhuang, standing doing nothing, we can develop inner strength?” Besides,
he did not look particularly special, he was a normal man; he didn’t seem to
possess exceptional abilities. I had only heard what others said about his
dexterity…
Knowing I was a doctor, and it
was aid he had the ability to cure diseases, I could hardly believe it. So I
had my doubts. But with time, I realized my teacher was right, and the results
had convinced me.
[11] Interviewer: Where were
you training with him?
Professor Yu: We trained in Tai
Miao, the current Palace of the Culture of Workers, on the east side of Tiananmen
Square. In the morning, many people came to train; over a hundred. It is at
this point, I started to train with them.
The real beginning was in
Beijing between 1942 and 1944 at Pichai Hutong, in Xidan, under Japanese
occupation. It was after the seizure of Japan in 1945 that they began
practicing in Tai Miao. After the Liberation (1947), the classes were moved to
Zhong Shan Park.
[12] Interviewer: From what I
know, in the early days of the Wang Xiangzhai teaching, students mainly
practiced fighting, was it not?
Professor Yu: Exactly. At the
beginning, he taught us boxing. The students were very young and enjoyed
fighting. It was the era of Yao Zong Xun, who began studying before me. At that
time, after having studied for a few years, students sought strong opponents to
test their skill.
[13] Interviewer: So, it was
pure boxing…
Professor Yu: Yes, at Pichai
Hutong, students were mainly learning how to fight and the truth is that Wang
Xiangzhai’s students fought against opponents who practiced other styles, and
they usually proved themselves stronger. But it is true that many of them were
only preoccupied with fighting and some even abuse their power. The overall
impression was not very positive. People thought we practiced Da Cheng Quan and
that we were fighters and troublemakers. The reputation we had was not
positive, of course.
Over the years, this was the
reason why Yao Zong Xun gave up its’ name to go back to the original style and
was so renamed Yi Quan, hoping to get rid of the bad reputation that followed
Da Cheng Quan. That is why, in the Yao Zong Xun’s training system, it is still
called Yi Quan.
[14] Interviewer: But then,
what is the correct name, Yi Quan or Da Cheng Quan?
Professor Yu: Yi Quan is the
name of the style developed by Wang Xiangzhai in Shanghai during his time, that
is to say, the time before his arrival in Beijing. The system began to be
called Da Cheng Quan during the Bejing’s era. But it was not the idea of Wang
himself, but of his disciples.
Da Cheng is a Confucian concept
indicating a very high degree of personal development, among scholars. Da Cheng
Quan means “boxing through great achievement”. Yi Quan derives from Xing Yi
Quan (boxing through form and intent), but Xing was withdrawn because Yi Quan
does not have forms nor routines.
Zhang Bi Hua gave the name Da
Cheng and Wang Xiangzhai initially agreed. However he thought that the
knowledge of man was unlimited as was the knowledge of martial arts. To call it
“great achievement” could give a wrong idea about that unlimited knowledge.
The two names correspond to
different eras. The Yi Quan era dates back in the 1920s in Shanghai. Da Cheng
Quan dates back to Beijing in the 1940s. Eventually, it was given the final
name of Xue Zhong Guo Quan or “science of Chinese boxing” or “Chinese Kung Fu”.
[15] Interviewer: We can say
that these three designations correspond to three different periods, does it
not? But the “science of Chinese boxing” is a more general name…
Professor Yu: The science of Chinese
boxing is the result of many years of research on the foundations, the pillars
of the practice of Chinese Kung Fu. Otherwise, if you want to call it the first
era of Da Cheng Quan or Yi Quan, it really does not matter. But the name that
corresponds to the last era is Zhong Guo
Quan Xue Yan Jiu Hui (Association of the Research on Chinese Kung Fu or
Chinese Boxing).
The inscription on the tomb of
Wang Xiangzhai, Xue Yan Jiu Hui Yi Quan
(Yi Quan Research Association) is incorrect, because the final stage was to
move from one style of fighting or boxing to investigate the science of martial
arts. Such has been its evolution, this is the reality.
[16] Interviewer: And how does
such a martial style develop into a science of culture and health, of Yang Sheng?
Professor Yu: After the
Liberation, the practice of martial arts was banned. And although there were
many people interested in martial arts like Yao Zong Xun and Wang Jie Xuan, we
were very interested in Zhan Zhuang. It was not only the therapeutic side of
it, but also its means to preserve health, Yang
Sheng. I was a doctor, I could not pick a fight over there (laughs), and I was interested more in
the investigation and studying in depth the aspect of prevention and treatment
of diseases.
[17] Interviewer: So, how does
this research group, interested in the therapeutic aspect of Zhan Zhuang,
investigate it? By reading books?
Professor Yu: At that time
there were no books or any material available. There were ancient Buddhist and
Taoist texts but no recent and more precise publications. References to the
practice in the ancient books were very vague. And recent publications were
small booklets that barely taught postures, nothing more, nothing concrete.
[18] Interviewer: In June 1981,
Zhan Zhuang Jian Shen Liang Fa (Zhan
Zhuang, A good method for Health), the first book on Zhan Zhuang teaching
techniques to promote health was published. The first edition sold 120,000
copies and the second edition, more than 275,000.
Professor Yu: Yes, it was in
general, a theoretical explanation of Zhan Zhuang. It also included some
medical cases, but nothing more. It is in later publications that medical
records were included.
[19] Interviewer: I understand
that the application of Zhan Zhuang in hospitals began in the 1950s. Apparently
Wang Xiangzhai was invited to hospitals and clinics across China to teach Zhan
Zhuang as a therapy. When did he begin treating patients with Zhan Zhuang? What
was his approach?
Professor Yu: After the
Liberation, in 1947, coinciding with the period of Tai Miao, many people went
to local parks to cure their health problems. Essentially, we practiced Zhan
Zhuang, but when the sick and weak left, we continued with Tui Shou (pushing
with hands)/
[20] Interviewer: I understand
that this change came from the prohibition by the Government of the martial
arts, and Wang Xiangzhai then concentrated his practice on the treatment of
disease.
Professor Yu: Yes, that’s right
and very successfully. As I said, many people came for this reason, with health
problems such as arthritis or an affected shoulder that did not allow them to
raise an arm, people coming in wheelchairs pushed by their family… These
people, after half a month or a month were recovering mobility and started to
walk alone. At that time, I saw patients that did not improve their health a
bit while in the hospital. However, in the park, they did almost immediately.
It was then, in the physiotherapy section of the hospital, we created a new
department called “exercises for recovery” (ti
liao ke).
At first there were not many
patients, but the department soon began to fill up. On the fifth floor of the
hospital of western medicine, we had a huge room where we practiced Zhan Zhuang
in the morning. Despite the skepticism, word of mouth worked well and in no
time, we welcomed many people.
[21] Interviewer: And what
happened to the martial practice, did it disappear?
Professor Yu: At Tai Miao, most
were practicing Zhan Zhuang for health but there was also a group that was
training at Yao Zong Xun’s home, in Xidan. They were all young students
learning combat but clandestinely, because it was not allowed. This did not
mean there was a change in the ways of Wang Xiangzhai. The number of people
practicing Yang Sheng (for health) was growing and the number who trained for
combat was shrinking. So the practice evolved towards the prevention and cure
of diseases. Anyways, the therapeutic results were very good.
[22] Interviewer: What types of
diseases were treated?
Professor Yu: All chronic
illness: hypertension, arthritis, coronary heart diseases, digestion, insomnia…
Insomnia has excellent results.
[23] Interviewer: What was the
reaction of the medical community?
Professor Yu: There was no
concrete feedback. At first, we just occupied a rehabilitation room at the
general hospital of Peking. Other hospitals did not have such courses, but
gradually they began to include similar activities but used on the generic
name, Qi Gong.
[24] Interviewer: How did Zhan
Zhuang therapy and Qi Gong differ?
Professor Yu: At first, they
were very similar. We all practiced with standing postures, standing, sitting
or lying down. After creating the sanatorium of Beidahe, they started calling
it Qi Gong and the Chinese medicine hospitals also called it Qi Gong and not
Zhan Zhuang. In 1967, they invited Wang Xiangzhai to the Research Institute of
Chinese Medicine and created the Department of Research on Qi Gong. It was
called Qi Gong but Zhan Zhuang was practiced like in the hospital of Guan’an
men or the one in Baoding.
[25] Interviewer: So initially,
the practice was the same, but with different names? Because they followed
different paths thereafter…
Professor Yu: It’s exactly
that. In the 1960s at Xiao Tang Shan, a seminar was held where all sanatoria
and rehabilitation services in the country spoke of Zhan Zhuang. Then I went to
Shanghai, where we also presented it; the form was accepted in all these
institutions as a therapy but it was called Qi Gong because the name already had
a reputation and Zhan Zhuang did not.
Then came the Qi Gong boom and many systems emerged
thereafter; some were positive and some much less so. Like those who practice
Fa Gon, who emit Qi with their hands and change the composition of water, or
who tell you they are sending Qi from Beijing to a patient in Hong Kong and
healing him … (laughs). All this is
false … It started about forty years ago.
And suddenly it became very
funny, because if you said it was wrong, nobody believed it. Everyone was very
excited about it. Then Li Hong Zhi appeared and created Fa Lun Gong. He also
taught on the basis of Zhan Zhuang but added things like “Fa Lun Wheel” orbits
etc. Thye promised spectacular things. But it ended in tragedy.
The first steps in Qi Gong
therapy are very positive and very useful from a therapeutic point of view. The
problem with higher steps, such as “opening the gate of heaven”, micro-orbit,
macro-orbit… These elements can cause problems. By practicing Qi Gong, the
focus is on the middle line of the meridian system.
While in Zhan Zhuang, one
practices on the four members of the body. It is best not to focus on the
centre and not to control the breathing. Natural breathing is the best, for
then the brain is able to relax. The extremities are the most important; this
is where we concentrate our work. Thanks to them, we connect with our internal
centres (bodies) and we develop our capacity, our potentiality. The lower
extremities are even more important, the potential is much greater. Today, men
are putting great emphasis on the movements of upper limbs but there is much
more potential in the legs.
[26] Interviewer: Did you know
the original therapy of Qi Gong? What was it?
Professor Yu: In ancient times,
there were methods of Yang Sheng, the culture of health, used by people of high
intellect and culture. In my view, this whole culture of Yang Sheng comes
mainly from the Tao De Jing of Laozi. A very important part of the Tao De Jing
is to cultivate life of health. Understanding this is very important.
[27] Interviewer: And the Buddhist
contribution?
Professor Yu: In Buddhism, the
main one is the sitting posture. The Chinese cultural tradition brings this
little gem that is standing meditation, sometimes with a martial vocation, but
always centered on the development of global energy and integrated in the center.
[28] Interviewer: But the
training system which, according to tradition, brought the Boddhidharma in
Shaolin also includes standing postures.
Professor Yu: Yes, it is true,
but the first references to standing meditation existed in Chinese culture a
thousand years earlier than it did in the “Classic of the Yellow Emperor” and
especially the Tao De Jing.
Thereafter, the only practice
of Zhan Zhuang, which had perhaps become too difficult and too elementary,
evolved towards practice in movement, then came those who were called internal
martial arts. These styles are based on movement, and Qi Gong, on peace.
[29] Interviewer: What is the
future of Zhan Zhuang as a therapy today?
Professor Yu: Zhan Zhuang
therapy is currently used in very few places. In the medical field, we still
use a lot of acupuncture and Tuina massage, but static practices are in
decline.
[30] Interviewer: Can we get
back to it?
Professor Yu: It is now at the
stage in which it was a few years ago. In hospitals, we can say that this
practice has almost disappeared. Today, the practice is done on a personal
level, at home, in some schools, in public parks with professors. Surely, it
does not benefit from the fame it had a few years ago.
[31] Interviewer: Who do you
think Zhan Zhuang could benefit to?
Professor Yu: We should spread
and promote this practice to the ones affected with chronic diseases that
cannot be cured with medication. Zhan Zhuang can rebalance health effectively
without resorting to aggressive treatments.
There has been an increasing
level of interest, especially abroad. In China, considering what happened to Fa
Lun Gong practitioners, Zhan Zhuang is a subject that is avoided. Da Cheng Quan
practice has been greatly affected by all that. However we must not lose hope
in Zhan Zhuang, which is more than a therapy or a art for combat. It is also
one of the best ways to prevent disease, an extraordinary method for preserving
and reinforcing health.